李越——香港秩序与专业精神

sophia

iamwhoiam ： People have often debated whether "nature" or "nurture" is more sighificant in shaping a person's values and behaviour. My life experience is that "nurture" carries far more weight. Two-third of my career was spent on working with people who have committed offences, and for 5 years I was the most senior officer responsible for social welfare services for these people. If and when I was asked: "Who may commit offences?" My answer is: "Any person may, under certain circumstances." My partners in the police and prison systems share my view. So, there is no rigid "Chinese innate characteristics" that absolutely govern the behaviour of the Chinese people. It is just that through force & preaching, some people have shaped and conditioned the majority into blind acceptance. 人们一直在争论，在塑造一个人的价值观和行为上，“本性”和”培养“到底哪个更重要。我的人生经验是后天培养占据了更重要的位置。我职业生涯的三分之一，都在与这些有犯罪记录的人打交道。 有5年时间，我是负责这类人群的社会福利服务的最高级别的官员。如果我被问到：“谁可能犯罪？”我的答案是：“任何人都可能，在特定的环境下”。我的在警署和监狱系统的同伴也认同我的这个观点。所以，并不是严格的“中国人的天性“就必然决定中国人的行为。而是通过外力和培，一些人塑造和适应了大部分特征，到盲目的接受（这句可能有误）。

sophia

silence： I am tring to reply u in english .practice it,aha. i quite agree with that" nurture carries far more weight than nature on shaping a person's characterisitcis." enviornament is far important than a person's nature. As i learned from my colleagues that when they live abroad, everything changes..they follow the traffice rules, they stand on line while waiting for buses.shopping ...but when they come back home, they just do like every chinese do..maybe not every..
, a+ U) r2 e" N5 \( b8 ` how this occurs? they can be a "good" person abroad..but here in china...they can not.. I don't know. but always i am trying to be a person who follow the rules. I am thinking if everything can be govered by the rules or law,but not only by ethic rules, can this situation change? OH, while talking this.. i begin to miss one of my friend from austria..while walking along with him.you always feel comfortable .he will open the door ,take the chair, take the coat for you... a gentlemen. all these behavior were shaped by their culture or laws?i don;t know.

我试着用英语回复你。联系一下，哈哈。我非常同意，后天培养比本性在塑造一个人的特征上占据了更大的比重。环境比一个人的天性更加重要。我从同事那里了解到，但他们在国外生活的时候，一切都会改变...他们遵守交通规则，等公车或者购物时自觉排队...但是回到大陆后，他们就像每个中国人做的那样去做...也许不是每个人。这些是怎么发生的呢？他们在国外可以是一个“好的“人..但在中国却做不到。我不知道为什么。但是我始终在努力做一个能够遵守规则的人。我在想，如果一切都可以被法律或者规范约束，而不仅仅是道德约束，是不是会有所改变？说这些时，突然很想我的一个奥地利的朋友，当你和他一起走路的时候，你永远会觉得份很舒服。他会为你开门，拿开椅子，为你拿外套...绅士。这些行为是他们的文化还是法律塑造出来的？不知道。哈哈。

sophia

社工哥哥：【翻译不了】
Well, I want to say is, there is no evidence that police and judges more than the average person may be a crime, but it seems draconian laws and the Chinese people but also does not work, for example, the Ming Dynasty to the corrupt practice of torture is absolute Junfa, but the Ming dynasty was one of the most corrupt, and thus lose power。
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silence：
& g$ C3 _# J, }* [3 W! u我想i am who i am 在理解我和主人两个人的蹩脚英语上很有困难。所以还是把各自观点贴一次中文吧 。哈哈。
3 m" Q# E) M, l9 |3 ?: G1 Cpartly get what "社工哥哥' is saying...
then how can behavior be changed?
rules or laws is not okay.
$ N# E7 B( ^# \( wexecutive power is not okay.
' X( c/ N% v6 ~7 {: d( I% i4 P1 Gthen what can work?

部分了解了社工哥哥的意思。。。那么行为是如何改变的？
+ }/ ^; D& A- A! |/ m7 d' E规则和法律都不管用。
  H8 q+ [$ d7 k8 V执行力也不好。
; p0 i1 V% k2 q# Y那什么是游泳的？

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社工哥哥：
! H2 X3 |  h6 D  N警察和法官他们是最了解，最接近犯罪的，但是他们并没有因为靠近犯罪而犯罪。但严刑峻法看起来对中国人也并不起着作用。例如，明朝用严刑峻法来治理贪污。但是明朝确实最贪污的一个朝代，并且也因此丧失了政权。
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silence：
then what is useful for shaping behavior of chinese?
4 u4 M, G5 w) {$ Y: F4 W那么什么对于塑造中国人的行为有用？

sophia

iamwhoiam ：
% ^) A% i+ ~+ J' B: b- WI had no problem understanding your English, ha ha.
In western tradition, laws indicate the bottom-line of acceptable behaviour when relating to other people. Laws are made by the people, through clearly laid down procedures, also set by the people, Any person crossing this bottom line, irrespective of his/her position, will be dealt with under the specfic provision under that law.

The Australian friend has gentleman manners, ha ha. That's how gentlemen treat ladies, a culture developed when they were just boys, ---the stronger protects the less strong, instead of exploiting them.in terms of physical strength
) O4 c1 b5 ^9 {% V2 A" J0 `, W理解你的英语没有问题，哈哈。
在西方的传统中，法律规定了但涉及到其他人时，可以接受的行为底线。法律是由人指定的，通过清晰的执行程序，同样是由人设立的。任何超越底线的人，不管他或者她的位置，都必须在法律框架下的特定条款来处理。
5 N, k/ f5 w% |奥地利朋友有绅士风度，哈哈。这是绅士如何对待女士的方式。但他们仅仅是小男孩儿时这样的文化就被告诉他们了—强者（从体力上讲）要保护不那么强壮的，而不是去利用他们。

sophia

silence：
3 h4 [! u' ]% J6 o' vIt's very nice of you...i am who i am..gentleman~
7 w" T5 X5 |/ |0 raha~so still in english....
2 l- u+ G9 J' k  u( vin a word..
% b& e+ e+ u  P* \& q9 K1).laws indicate the bottom-line of acceptable behaviour when relating to other people
2) a culture developed when they were just boys
both are so important! ~~ahaha,,,
  G! f; c- L( T! @7 ~' g4 x6 x
你真的非常好，很绅士。哈哈。仍然用英语。总结下
0 z& i0 f* S4 t$ D8 O1）        法律规定了但涉及到其他人的行为底线。
2）        但他们仅仅是小孩时，文化就必须教给他们。
这两点都非常重要！-哈哈。

sophia

x思考x思考x思考

lynne

sophia辛苦了，x炫耀

社工哥哥

呵呵，翻译人才丫！

yilingche

专业精神，缺的很呐~~~

深圳人

写的还是不错的。我一年待在那边半年，觉得就是一个专业精神。做事都有做事的样子。